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Warlocks

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Warlocks and Our Relationship to Demons

Nenicirene's picture
Posted in

Achalon said:

Warlocks have the blood of demons flowing through their veins... [Opening the Dark Portal] is more like opening the door to let a distant cousin come in and visit than letting in the bringer of doom, for us, at least.

Ugh, no. My blood is pure gnome, thank you very much. There's only one way to get demon blood in the family, and no way I'd do that. Demons are tools. It'd be like having sex with a hammer, or maybe a trained dog. Ick!

In any case, I'm not friends with demons—I am their master! They bow before my cosmic might. The only demons I'm letting into this world are my personal slaves. It's nuts like you that give masters of the black arts a bad name.

To which he followed up:

Um, read the warlock description? If you are a Warlock, you DO have the blood of demons within you.

Nope, not a mention of blood on either the main class page or the warlock-specific one. I think you've been smoking too much brimstone. Either that, or perhaps you've been sharing needles with your succubus. I guess that's another way to get demonic blood in your veins, if your ancestors never deemed to do profane acts of obscene blasphemy in the bedroom.

And Freyyr added:

Like, say... having relations with hammers?

*grins impishly*

/vanish

Let me just put it this way: Engineer magazine didn't have two-page photo spreads on the intended uses of tools. Thankfully, all copies of that filth went up in smoke along with my city. (Hmm, given that they did get destroyed, maybe I should have accepted their offer to pose…I'd be richer, and there'd be no evidence…)

Which led Teehee to conclude:

And this is why Gnomish Enginnering was always more popular then Goblin Enginnering.

It's posts like these that make you THE greatest gnome ever. I will never ever punt you through the up-rights.. never!

Advice for Young Warlocks

Nenicirene's picture
Posted in

Warlocks are awesome. We're complicated and have a bazillion highly situational abilities, and you have to know when to use each one. We're also rare, and thoroughly cool.

In terms of leveling, Affliction all the way to Dark Pact followed by Destruction down to Intensity is my preference, and most everyone will agree about the Dark Pact part. The concept of downtime was almost non-existent for me until I started playing a priest. (My saying is that mages and priests die because they're out of mana, while warlocks run out of mana because they died.) I still have that spec (with the last points going into Improved Imp), as I feel it's the optimal combination of solo efficiency, long-haul staying power, and group utility. Maybe not so hot for PvP, but that's not really my concern.

In terms of late-game desirability, yes, everyone wants a warlock along on their raids, because we are wipe protection and a taxi service. The fact that we can blow things up okay, blow up lots of things at once pretty damn well, pass out free health potions on a separate timer, and provide solid crowd control in many late-game instances round us out quite nicely.

In 40-person raids, you'll spam Shadow Bolt and like it. Then again, most other classes are only mashing one button themselves. You'll bitch and moan about the stupid, stupid 8-debuff limit that wrecks your class, and content yourself with the knowledge that it's being "looked at".

Better than being a hunter. Cause you know us, we just shoot stuff dead. Unless you are the Puller. Now that's some fun stuff. The raid is in your hands at that moment cause one bad pull can and will kill the raid.

The only warlock I played got to lv 16 but decided to go orc since I like being the odd ball. I still love the fact that you can curse, immolate and corrupt to death quite a few people. Much like a commercial, “set it and forget it”.

I have to disagree in the talent spec. Demonology, babes. Live longer, Resist Ragnaros. It's not a spec, it's a way of life.

Maximum Effect from Minimum Effort

Nenicirene's picture
Posted in

Rylle wrote:

It seems to be a trend that people want to move from some sort of support/service character to something supposedly more glorious, like melee.

Melee is for people who can't understand the trick of making their foes explode by pointing at them. Us warlocks are just inherently lazy, you know. That's why we figured out an easier way to kill things, and we get demons to do a lot of our work for us. And DoTs, you know. They're designed so you can fix yourself a sandwich while the monster twitches to death. Soulstones are just to save us a long, boring walk. And free mounts, so we don't have to walk as much. Fortunately, channeling nether essence is slimming, or we'd get kinda fat.

Are warlocks evil?

Nenicirene's picture
Posted in

Good and Evil is a distinction that a real warlock wouldn't bother with. We are beyond good and evil.

There is only strong and weak. And we don't want to be weak.

Precisely. Evil is a mirage. Only the most depraved individual claims to be evil. There are those who steal from those who need what is taken, kill without reason, and derive glee from the suffering of others. Such people are evil, but they are also stupid. Such evil is easy to find and to burn out, because it does not conceal itself.

I call upon magic from the twisting nether. Does this make me evil? No, it is merely a tool, lacking in intent. Even the actions that I take with it are devoid of morality. It is only the context in which they are taken that can define if they are good or evil. What matters is not what I do, but why I do it.

I enslave demons to do my will. Is this evil? No, it is merely the golden rule. They would do the same to us if they could, but we won the war. If I could not bind them to make them harmless, I would have to kill them. Which is worse?

I kill those who would harm me, my friends, and my people. Is that evil? No, for they are trying to do evil first. I act only in self-defense.

Am I evil? No. I simply am. If you try to harm me or mine, I will do my best to kill you.

Further dialogue on the nature of evil

Nenicirene's picture
Posted in

Does the ends justify the means?

Some ends justify more means than others.

As a lowbie quest you're sent to poison a Stormwind noble for nothing more than snooping around.

That doesn't scream evil to you?

It's only evil to kill people who don't deserve it.

Fitting for the real world, but not for a fantasy world. In fantasy Good and Evil aren't just terms used to describe relativistic shades of morality. They are very real concepts that define the universe itself.

In your example above, the actions of the people in the village would be considered evil. However, if the law of their society was to mutilate the child and toss the baby to the elements, then they would be following the laws of their people, which would make them lawful. Lawful Evil, but still Evil.

You are confusing the nonsensical morality system of Dungeons and Dragons with the entire fantasy genre.

I see why we have differing views.. You have added players to the equation.. Look at the class before the randomness of people are thrown in. You are correct that they "can" be "played" good or evil,, any class can. But it doesnt take away the taint of their history or skills that define the class.

My argument is the base class could be considered evil, like the base Pally class could be considered good.. Remove the people,, examine the class.. The question was warlocks=evil? not how warlocks are played=evil?

The warlock point of view is that a class cannot be evil outside of its specific actions. Warlocks are not inherently evil. We are inherently pragmatic. We realize that all things have a price, and are willing to weigh our options and pay prices that others shirk at.

On Trust and Compassion

Nenicirene's picture
Posted in

The Alliance and Horde Warlocks aren't all really evil, they are just realists. Things break, and people die... You may as well use those natrual processes to fit your own goals. Really, how is it any less gruesome for a Warrior to chop someone to bloody shreads first hand than for a Warlock to summon something to do it for them? Not to say you should unconditionally trust us, as we will be more than happy to take advantage of any open opportunity to get ahead... But its not like we're really going to burn down Orgrimmar or send Infernals marching through Ironforge.

Exactly. I am a pragmatist. If anything, I am one of the most trustworthy individuals around, in that if I do not have a reason to betray you, I won't. If there is good reason to, then I will. So long as you do not cross me and so long as sacrificing you upon the altar of the common good would achieve no long-term benefit, you have nothing to fear from me save the chance of my making a mistake.

And those who say that there is no good or evil... That is exactly how evil thinks. An evil being views himself as being above "petty" restrictions of morality, kinda like a serial killer or sociopath.

It is not that there is neither good nor evil, and it is not that I am beyond moral restrictions. It is merely that I am free from the constraint of never doing evil. If great good can be achieved by doing small evil, I am willing to take that step, whereas most others value their conscience too highly. Being a sociopath does not make me evil, it simply frees me from the chains of compassion that constrain others from acting in ways that are expedient and necessary. These are dark times, and I am willing to become the darkness to defeat it. I am, in truth, quite selfless, as I accept damnation as the price of security for my people, though I don't like to belabor the point, since no one likes a self-proclaimed martyr.

Warlocks and their mounts

Nenicirene's picture
Posted in

And anyone who rides around on a tortured, enslaved horse who is constantly being tormented by being on fire cannot be all good.

It's not torment! The poor things get cold otherwise. They have a very different metabolism from things of this world. And you don't see me putting saddles and reins and other implements of horse bondage on my mount, like you armor-crazy paladins. I have a good working relationship with my animal based on mutual respect and trust.

I rolled a gnome warlock (but only level 10). Their early quests all seemed to be "our city is trashed so we have to do whatever we can to get back what's ours, no matter what that means in terms of right and wrong". I suppose this may vary.

Precisely. We've been burned once before. It's not going to happen again. Security first, at all costs.

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