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Why DKP systems are evil

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Nenicirene's picture

All I see in this 'DKP Points' threads are people whining about not earning the same as other people that put in more work.

How can you whine about that?

A points system rewards you for what you put in.

How can anything be fairer then that?
You put nothing in, you get nothing out.
You put in a lot, you get out a lot.

What fairer system could their possibly be, why do you think that almost EVERY raid guild bar the very rare ones in EQ used this system? because it is the fairest means to reward people, you reward people for the work they put in.

No, DKP systems are a scam to retain loot within the most hardcore circle of the group that implements them. They way they work is:

You put a little in, you get nothing out.
You put in a lot, you get out a lot.

Rolling for items within the group rewards people based on the work they put in, because every raid you go on corresponds to a chance to win what you want. Go on twice as many raids, get twice as many chances.

On the other hand, a DKP system serves to lock out the people who go on less raids. They never get enough points to compete with the people that go on more raids, and thus the loot stays within the inner circle. However, fairness doesn't matter, as it's the inner circle that sets the rules, and they will naturally come up with a system that grossly favors them and then argue that it's "fair". Thus, the DKP systems won't go away.

I disagree with this...Niveus Lepus uses DKP, and items get doled out pretty fairly IMO.

I jumped in late and can't do Onyxia, so I lose out on two sources of DKP, yet I still manage to pull a fairly regular amount of items. I don't get them FIRST, but I get them pretty often. And I like to spend my points on silly things. ("What? Awesome sword when I already have an Arcanite Reaper? 'kay!")

We have people who gets stuff on their first run because so much of a certain class set has dropped that EVERYONE IN THE RAID of that class is in negative points.

Sure, there's the eventual inflation as everyone picks up what they need and nobody needs X or Y, but all that leads to is that newcomers get that stuff with no hassle...it drops them into negative DKP like mad, but they work out of it and don't get first crack on the next new stuff, whereas the people who've been around forever do get first shot at it. Which I consider fair.

Maybe our DKP system is different than ones you've seen, I have no idea, but it works out nicely for us. I've seen more than one first-timer get a nice Epic piece out of Molten Core.

Nenicirene's picture

It sounds like NL system is actually deflationary—that is, the points coming in are less than those going out, leading to most people being in the negative, and thus favoring new folks. I didn't address such cases in my original rant, mostly because I doubted they actually existed in the wild, as they work against those in charge of maintaining the system, and the my cynical self finds it hard to believe people would support power structures that harm them.

I did fail to take into account the loot-wave phenomenon, in which there's a finite number of items suitable for any given character, and people fill up on these, then move on to higher tiers of loot, and are thus not competing with newcomers for the entry-level loot, allowing the newcomers to get those comparatively quickly. My analysis was taking a more open-ended view, which assumes that all players retain interest in all appropriate items, as opposed to having a finite capacity to use loot.

All that said, I'm still opposed to any systems that are not zero-sum, as they're elegantly self-balacing without administrative tinkering.

Well, considering we rate at very low points-per-hour and give out shares of the items that drop...a single item can wipe you out for a good two weeks of raid gains.

My very first raid I got a necklace, and I was paying back for it three weeks from being in the hole, and it was cheap as some of our items go.